Tuesday, April 5, 2011

Debating a Fundamentalist and a Creationist: Part 1

So, a friend of mine posted on his Facebook an article on some plates being found in Jordan that may have some information on the validity of the bible. He wondered if this would have any affect on the gung-ho fundamentalist crowd. I said it wouldn't, because evidence of any sort has little effect on the entrenched views of fundamentalists. We've seen this over and over with evolution.

Enter the fundamentalist. Enjoy the show.

Me: I don't feel that ANYTHING at this point will make people who consider the bible the literal word of their god reconsider. The bible has been debunked a number of times, copied and recopied with an incredible number of errors, with huge swaths that were considered too difficult left out or buried. A new discovery at this point will hardly change anything.

Fundamentalist: The Bible has never been debunked credibly by anyone at anytime. Those who believe it is full of contradictions do not understand it and cannot interpret it. It is a mystery to be discovered by those who have an open to heart to receive it. I challenge anyone to come up with a valid "debunking" of it. It doesn't exist.

Friend: To Fundie:  How old would you say planet Earth is? :^)  

Fundie: I don't believe it can be determined to any reasonable degree of accuracy. The science used to make estimates is dubious at best. To me, the answer seems irrelevant to the human condition.

Friend I dunno, Fundie. 10,000 years or 4,500,000,000 seems to be enough of a disagreement to warrant a seat at the accuracy table, don't you think? :^)  

Me: *rolls up sleeves* How about this.  Or this.. Or this. Bart Ehrman is a scholar of biblical literature, has read the bible in all of the languages it was written in, and has debunked the legitimacy and the validity of it The bible is kind of the oldest game of telephone. Here's a good summary video. Or this is a good one: This gentleman has some really good things to say about debunking the validity of the bible:  This is an excellent source of information on how to evaluate these sources of information:  By the way. That science that you say is 'dubious at best'? It is the exact same science that you are using to type on your computers, that develops your medicines, that evaluates your clean water and food, that makes your car run, that keeps your air clean, that allows us to live and survive to the age we are now. Things we take for granted in the modern world are developed by using scientific methods, and so are the conclusions we have drawn about the age of the Earth and the universe. And the age of our own species. Please, read all of these sources, watch all of the videos, and look at everything I've given you carefully. I'm not paraphrasing or changing anything so that you can get a direct line on the information yourself. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have, but please, do the research. There is literally a ton of information out there on evolution and the age of this planet, and a little less but no less credible information out there on the evaluation of the bible.

I found this, as well. I think it's really well done. . Also, this is an interesting video on the weaknesses of radiocarbon dating.

Fundie: Spirituality (the existence of God) cannot be examined or evaluated by man's limited intellect. Those who try are missing it entirely.

Friend: Common, Fundie. That's the same argument used by the Emperor's tailors. You said earlier that "all credible arguments are welcome". Would you care for a rebuttal more substantial than "If you don't know, you're just stupid"? Please??

Fundie: Friend, It's Ok. You just don't have the heart to receive the things of God... yet. I'm certain that an opportunity will be presented to you at some point. No argument is required. When God wants to get in touch with you, He knows where to find you. Then, you will know. No rebuttal is needed. Just wait and see.

Friend: In the same vein, Fundie, one might opine that you might be in store for a brief moment of disappointment when your final breath passes your lips, and then,... nothing?
You're the one who volunteered in this thread to "challenge anyone here t...o come up with a valid debunking of " The Bible, and Reading Frame offered some meaty counters to your challenge. How's about some follow through, please?
As you probably guessed, this is the point where he shut up and the creationist stepped in.  Stay tuned for the next installment. It's gonna be a doozy.

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